That is one opinion have learn through the years their is 2 sides to every story.

To anyone who supports Act 13 as it stands, I ask only one question: Would you want a loud and potentially odorous industrial compressor station with 14 or more 1350 horsepower engines built 750 feet from your home? And with no ability on your local municipality's part to have any say in it whatsoever? Because that is EXACTLY what Act 13 provides. I appreciate the group of townships who are attempting to have the zoning pre-emption part of Act 13 struck down. Thank you, Rep. White for getting involved! And thank you to those who have volunteered their time to launch this challenge.

Good luck to all that are challenging this law. I still believe in the America Government that above all else is of the people, for the people, and not created by special interest on either the right or the left. And that when the special interest so greatly influences the law that something like Act 13 passes that is CLEARLY against the state constitution, that we the people (lead by Cecil township) have the opportunity to challenge it in open court. And no matter how much money the Shale industry spends on lawyers and propaganda that the law and the people are still on our side.
PS- I’m all for Corbet giving Shell a couple billion dollars so they open a plant in PA. But let’s just increase the extraction tax why we are at it to pay for it.

Supremacy clause. Sorry guys. The constitution actually makes your local "rights" subordinate to the will of the state. Article ix section 2 last sentence. Sorry.

Its actually a scary document. If i wasnt forced to I dont think I'd live under this document. I wonder if you or any of your "constituents" have ever read it. Or I guess they'll just take your word that this somehow violates their :"constitutional rights" which except at the behest of the state they have none.

And lawyers dont do anything for free,

The key words in that article you quoted "local or special law". and "which has been or can be provided by general law". So basically, they can pass any law they want. Unless act 13 is a law specific to certain localities, or is some type of special law, but i dont know how that applies to laws passed under normal circumstances using the accepted procedures of the legislature. I guess every law could be considered a 'special law". The only the your argument has any weight is if this is somehow a special law whatever that is or it is applied only to certain localities, which it is not.

I cant believe we live under the yolk of this document.

You are never going to pass a law that will please everybody a state law is passed to control the gas industry because it is state wide. When you let every little community pass different laws for something that is state wide all you end up with is more confusion then benefits. If you attend one of the local township meeting you get a taste of this confusion. Everytime someone doesn't like a neighbor or a business next to them, etc they are there trying to get a new ordinance passed and the offical try to pass a new ordinance to please them.There is enough rules and regulation state and federal to keep an eye on this industry to make sure they are doing the right things you will never please everybody. This country needs to start using all of its natural resources coal, gas, oil and stop catering to countries who really don't like us it can be done safely.

But BE and proud American, you haven't addressed my one and only question. "Would you want a loud and potentially odorous industrial compressor station with 14 or more 1350 horsepower engines built 750 feet from your home? And with no ability on your local municipality's part to have any say in it whatsoever?"

Be, Again: John Smith is representing those challenging the law at no cost. I was at the meeting and reported on it when he announced that. Again: Just wanted to clarify that you are incorrect with that point, as I have explained on another thread.

Noise can be control and if you have any knowledge about todays engines you would know that, Fencing ,trees etc. you wouldn't even know it was there and the state and government agency have enough regulations to monitor them. Besides that these stations leave a lot more friendly enviroment and some green country side that our township use to be noted for not like the many housing plans that are cropping up all over the township that destrory every tree in its site. To answer your question wouldn't have a problem with the substations because I have done my research and not listened to some lawyers and politicans tell me what they want me to know.

proud American,
I am wondering if your "research" included visiting some of the people living close to these facilities? There are several facilities near me, and I have actually been to the neighbors homes, heard for myself the noise and sometimes odors that come from them. I would NEVER choose to have an industrial site like that built 750 feet from my home. And I sincerely doubt you would either given a choice. Trees do very little to reduce the noise from what I've seen and heard myself. Fencing does not hide the sites. You say, "you wouldn't even know it was there?" Seriously? C'mon. Act 13 is an outrage.

Be for president... of the treehouse in his parents' backyard.

DBR I always do a complete search before I comment. Now the question is would I prefer a sub station say in the middle of 50 acre with 20 acres for the sub station surrounded by trees or the same 50 acres stripped bare with100+ houses sitting on top of each other. Don't have to think twice sub station.

proud American
Unfortunately, Act 13 does not require compressor stations to be built in an idyllic hypothetical 50-acre site as you describe. Act 13 allows compressor stations to be built on even the smallest parcel just 750 feet from an existing home....not 20 or 50 acres away, but 750 feet!!!

Look at what MarkWest/Range has already done in the area. Many of the existing compressor sites are built on small parcels right next to people's homes. I feel you are deflecting by trying to argue compressor station vs. housing development.That has nothing to do with Act 13. I'm stating that NOBODY, even you, I take it, would want a station 750 feet from their bedroom window.

Had they included a provision that it had to be located on a 20 or 50-acre parcel surrounded by trees, I'm with you. But that is not what Act 13 says. It's 750 feet, baby, noise, odors, truck traffic -- all of it as your new neighbor. And NOBODY gets a word to say about it.

The only bigger disappointment than what I have read in the details of Act 13 is that our own state senator Tim Solobay actually voted in favor of it. Would he want a compressor station 750 feet from his home? I feel pretty confident the answer would be no.

DBR, were those compressor stations built before Act 13? Most likely, yes. And, if so, the local ordinances applied when those compressor stations were planned, and approved. If control is returned to the local authorities, why wouldn't new compressor stations be approved for similar locations?

If you go to Act 13 to the Preemption of Local Ordinances/Reasonable Development of Oil and Gas section and scroll down. Processing plants are permitted use in Industrial Districts (not residental and outside your bedroom window) and a Conditional use in Argricultural Districts. Scroll down a little further and it is stated noise level at the lot line not to exceed 60abA. Now the question is how loud is 60dbA a little more research. one site states that it is as loud as a conversation at three feet I keep searching and came up with a noise chart. Between 60-90dbA (hairdryer , air contioner, and vacuum cleaner). The one I liked the most was a lawn mower it is 80-95dbA. And Rogers answer is right on the nose the State law hasn't taken affect yet.

I also want to thank Mr. Solobay for standing up and voting yes.

Its a win win for me. Its a win win for jesse white. Its a win win for the attorney. We can't lose either way. Thats the beauty of it.

Roger - Yes, built before Act 13. But at this point in time Act 13 is now saying 750 feet distance is acceptable for all the rest of us who have yet to get a station built near us.

Proud American: I used to work for a company that sometimes did consulting on noise problems. 60 dba only measures one type of noise scale. What Act 13 doesn’t address is low-frequency noise generated by compressor stations. It’s widely known to be a problem. Low frequency noise is measured on a different scale altogether (dbC as opposed to dbA). Think loud bass of teenager blaring their car stereo at stop light reverberating through to inside of your car. What you feel is low-frequency noise. That’s what compressor engines generate 24x7. It’s different than the dba mentioned in Act 13.

Quiet rural area can be less than 30 decibels at night. Each increase of 10 decibels means the noise is now twice as loud. 30 to 40 is twice as loud. 40 to 50 is twice as loud again. And 50 to 60 is twice as loud again. Do you think our representatives and senators understood anything about dba and dbc when they voted on this?

proud american – Many noise ordinances in Texas, the largest oil and gas producing state are based on dbc also, not just dba. That's because they are some years ahead of PA on the curve regarding compressor noise. People there have already been burned and so developed stricter controls.

Roger - Yes, it was local control on most of these. But people go in with eyes wide open now as opposed to past. People understand more now the facility impacts and townships are demanding more from industry.

I agree that there is much more at stake with this law. I'm just using compressor station as one example of how it is inadequate in a way that could affect many people in future. You may have read about a recent PA court decision that said compressor stations must be allowed wherever oil and gas activity was already permitted. I saw it posted on Jesse White's website. So,it's a slippery slope then to possibly allowing compressor stations in all zones, including residential areas. So the 750 ft. distance becomes a very real area of potential concern for all people to consider.

And then what happens when the “next big thing” industry comes along and wants a special law created just for them? Should we just throw local zoning out the window and let the state control it all? I’m fine with that as long as someone demonstrates more competence than saying it’s ok to build a large industrial compressor station anywhere they want as long as it’s 750 feet from any of our homes.

Be - I'm not going to argue with a person using a false name, and who is contradicting what is now public record. If you'd like to discuss the case, feel free to call me anytime at 724-510-5659.

im not arguing with you. im just stating the fact that pro bono doesnt mean free, and this scott davis guy isnt doing this for nothing. you can call me

Be, I was referring to John Smith, who is an attorney representing the municipalities in the suit (and solicitor of Cecil)— who is not billing Cecil Township for legal fees associated with the challenge. As for calling you, I don't know how one would do that when you post under an anonymous profile. Feel free to post your real name and phone number and I'd be happy to call you anytime.

If you are uncomfortable with calling me (and since, again, as an anonymous poster I do not intrinsically know your contact information), I'd be happy to explain the role of a solicitor and how they are paid. If you would feel more comfortable emailing your contact information, I'd be happy to discuss this and any other issues you are confused about.

Sorry: My email is amanda.gillooly@patch.com.